Charlie Rose interviews David Letterman

Talk Show Host as Integral Man

David Letterman’s television interview on The Charlie Rose Show on Feb. 16, 1996 begins with Rose introducing Letterman as “a broadcaster’s broadcaster,” putting guest and host in the same category. Interesting to note Charlie Rose introduced Letterman in terms other than a comedian. Yes, Letterman is a broadcaster but the late night talk show hinges on the host's sense of humor. The late night talk show depends entirely on the host. The talk show revolves entirely around the comic sensibility of the host, whether Jack Paar, Johnny Carson, David Letterman, Jay Leno, Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Myers, James Corden or Jimmy Fallon.

Here's the YouTube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IYekI7ldSI

Letterman begins by saying his team reviewed the Steve Allen shows done for Westinghouse as a guide for developing his late night show. 

Rose asks about Johnny Carson. Letterman marvels at Carson’s ease of presentation: “It’s so easy, it’s so smooth, it’s so measured… he’s not breaking a sweat…. It’s just Johnny…”. Letterman pointed to Carson’s skill at bringing the audience into his most minute gesture. TV is the close-up medium: 

“He’s so comfortable. Here was a guy that understood his limitations and stayed within them and exploited that part of his personality to perfection. And I think that was the appeal of the man, night in and night out; it was always going to be Johnny, you could tell if Johnny would raise an eyebrow, oh Johnny’s upset, Johnny laughs, oh Johnny’s happy.” 

Rose presses the issue looking for a more analytical explanation for Carson’s genius. “What was the genius though?” Rose pushed Letterman further to explain the genius of Johnny Carson.  “What made him… that he could do that night after night?” 

Letterman adds little as elaboration, “He never tried to get out of what he was good at—Literally, “Here’s Johnny!” …

Letterman may be evading the question. Perhaps Letterman feels his own humor far exceeds Johnny Carson. If that's the case, I agree with Letterman. His rapier wit may be the best ever seen on the small screen. Rather than criticize Carson, Letterman attributes Johnny's long run of success to his ability to stay within himself.

                                           

Charlie Rose’s vain search for an easy explanation for Johnny Carson’s thirty year run of success highlights an interesting comparison between Charlie Rose, the interviewer, and Johnny Carson and David Letterman, the comedian/late night hosts. Charlie Rose cannot easily understand the comedian.  To use McLuhan's notions-- Charlie Rose embodies a very literate, literary, fragmented, rational style of communication versus the comedian, the integral man, the spontaneous, non-rational, intuitive, comedic style of communication.

Letterman creates Carson’s milieu, describing a minimalist world of television performance where every gesture moves mountains and the face tells everything… “Johnny raises an eyebrow, Johnny smiles…” as his explanation of the Carson magic. Dave Letterman prefaced his remarks by establishing his credentials in a modest manner,  “I know what it takes for me to get through a sixty minute effort each night.” In fact, Letterman is one of the few living humans who can speak knowledgeably about Carson's job description, the late night talk show host/comedian.

Letterman marvels at Carson’s mastery of the art of putting on the audience. The performer, as McLuhan states, must wear the audience, put them on the audience like a suit of clothes. Rose struggles to understand. Charlie Rose is a another breed of broadcaster, a documentarian, a writer of history. 

The comedy host works from the intuitive, right side of the brain. Letterman’s thoughts leap forward in a discontinuous manner, painting a picture in the cubist style without all the connections in place. Charlie Rose, on the other side of the fence, organizes his thoughts, lines them up in a, b, c order, the outlook of the literate man.

Letterman the late night host, the integral man, organic and post-literate in his outlook, responds from another perspective.

Jimmy Fallon-- Most Cheerful Man on Late Night

Watched Howard Kurtz on his Reliable Sources show this Sunday morning on CNN. His guest Ken Tucker discussed Jay Leno's firing by NBC, for an 8 minute segment entitled  "Jay Leno, fired and smiling." Tucker was asked whether the the late night format, a 60 year old tradition,  can be revived to something different for the future.

Tucker wondered about the wisdom of NBC's second firing Leno, this time for Jimmy Fallon, a guy he predicted will draw a smaller audience than Leno. Tucker took issue with Fallon's inability to interview heavyweight guests like Barack Obama. Fallon, he added, lacks awareness of the late night tradition and history. He predicted  Fallon and NBC will swoon in the ratings like Conan did. Tucker unceremoniously called Conan O'Brien ... "a shriveled carrot of a man... pushed to the margins, there's no buzz."

Tucker feels the Johnny Carson mantle should have been passed to David Letterman rather than Jay Leno. Letterman has more gravitas than the others. Tucker said Jimmy Kimmel, Fallon's likely main competitor, understands irony, from the School of David Letterman, but reveals nothing of himself. Letterman, unlike Kimmel, understands the late night franchise, talks about his life and has interests beyond Hollywood and the world of entertainment.

"Is Jimmy Fallon just an empty, though stylish suit, bound for low ratings?" Kurtz called Fallon "the most cheerful guy on late night" and cheerful goes a long way on television. Fallon has musical chops and can do a skit as his SNL pedigree guarantees. Kurtz and Tucker pointed out Fallon's savvy regarding the internet, Twitter and his demonstrated ability to go viral with clips. Maybe the new job description for  late night TV host has becomes or devolves to to a guy with a baton in his hand-- a symphony conductor for all things electronic.

Tucker likes Stephen Colbert, playing the real Stephen Colbert and not the twisted right wing persona, as a late night host for a major network. Colbert, however, may be even smarter, kinkier and more of a cult hero than Conan-- a prescription for limited ratings. Colbert's interviews play like standup with the interviewee serving as the straight man to Colbert's virtuoso improv. Late night hosts are supposed to be modest and must always make the guest look good. Colbert's pace is frenetic, offering little of the soporific pleasures of Late Night Starring Johnny Carson. We loved the familiar tropes and Ed McMahon's big brotherly guffaws for years until we got sick of them. Colbert does not provide the needed space. He races along, not the optimum rhythm of late night which allows some room for relaxed viewer participation. Jon Stewart is better at that.

Ken Tucker never has to make decisions with unknown outcomes. He always knows everything-- the definition of a critic. A Ken Tucker endorsement probably proves Stephen Colbert makes the absolute worst choice as late night host on network television! But I did enjoy much of what Ken Tucker had to say about the latest skirmish in the Late Night Wars.